YG Acoustics and our CEDIA Show Report
We got this email today:
“Dear people of Audio Federation,
I have carefully inspected your CEDIA / T.H.E. Show “show report” section.
I have not found the customary clarification used by publications at both the top and bottom of the page, which clarifies when a column is written by someone with commercial interest (this is normally written in large, readable letters).
Since you are an audio dealership rather than an independent publication, I kindly request that you mention this at the top and bottom of the page. Otherwise, it may confuse readers who will believe that you have no commercial interest in the matter.
I am asking you this as a sign of good faith, with no legal implications at this stage.
Please advise as to your planned course of action.
Sincerely,
Xaver Obermeyer
YG Acoustics”
It was a nice letter, especially considering the overall uncivilized tone of much of the conversation in the audio world these days.
The show report page in question is here:
T.H.E. Show – Full Report, CEDIA 2006, Denver
Do people think it is not obvious that we are a store (there are indeed links at the top and bottom of each page) in our show reports? [For that matter, what about the Blog?]
I mean, we WANT it to be obvious we are a store… People read the report, read about what we hear, see and read what we are like, think perhaps that we might, maybe have a clue, and check us out when they are ready to make the next step in their system building enterprise.
If it is NOT obvious, we could, for example, without being tooooo obnoxious about it…
1. Make the ‘store’ text yellow, keeping the other links white (you know, that section that has: “Home | Magazine | Store | Guides | Blog | Music” )
2. Make all these links larger
3. Make the “* Denotes a product carried by Audio Federation” text larger (Neli says it is quite small on her screen – it is quite fine on mine, but I have IE and FireFox both enlarge the text for me tired ole eyes).
4. Add a large, rotating, blinking, animated image of a shrinking wallet with our logo on it
5. An animation of a Calvin and Hobbs-like Audio Federation branded Transmogrifier Machine with troops of unhappy audiophiles going into the machine on a conveyer belt on one side and coming out the other side with big happy smiles pulling wagons full of audio equipment and LPs and CDs.
6. [OK, we could spend the rest of the day doing these…:-) ]
We just posted this email and some comments on the aforementioned page in the show report, to wit:
“Well, we certainly want people to know that we are a store. And, even though there are links at the top and bottom of 100s and 100s of pages of show reports, perhaps they are not visible enough and some people do not see them? If so, this would suck. So, we will try to resolve this by posting this on the blog and seeing what our readers think would help us get people to know we are a store but without being too obnoxious about it (i.e. there is NOT going to be blinking text saying ‘We are a store’ ‘We are a store’…. 🙂 ).
And as far as commercial interests in the matter go – I guess some dealerships do ‘trash talk’ their competition, and it kind of tarnishes all dealers as needing to lie to make sales. However, we do have a real commercial interest in going to shows and that is to find the really good shtuff, and talk about it… in our show reports, with you all out there, and with each other. Later we might even try to get it for our store. Most of the product lines we carry were ‘discovered’ at shows. And in general, the more we talk about what we hear at shows, the more people we meet who have also been hearing the same things we do – but they thought they were nuts because they thought they were the only ones who were hearing these things – that there was something wrong with them because they just… weren’t… able… to hear everything as being just won-der-ful. That there are always tradeoffs and some people like making those particular tradeoffs and some don’t.
And… ‘independent publication’? Love to see one of those someday.”
So, what *do* you all think? Another show report, CES 2007, is coming right up, so any decisions we make now will see the light of monitors real soon now.
My reaction, as an audio consumer, particularly to the part that reads “with no legal implications at this stage” is: While I’ve read a few good things about the brand and have had, until now, some slight curiosity – enough to get me to stick my head in their room at the show – I would now avoid them like the plague. What an attitude!
Never mind that it could scarcely be more clear that you are a retailer; never mind that you take great pains to identify those products which you do carry so that the reader may season avec sodium according to taste. Never mind that your comments are personal opinions; never mind that they are stated in a blog, for which their is little if any legal precedent regarding dust-ups; never mind that what you said is neither libelous nor slanderous. In short: NEVER MIND. Just keep doing what you’re doing. You’re fine.
I hope for his sake his goods never appears in a Ken Kessler review. He’ll have a stroke before he can ring his barrister.
My English is not my main language but let me say that I would never buy a product from YG acoustics’ they are insecure,and their bully attitude is a big turn off…America is a free country,anyone is allowed to express their opinion,this is not USSR.
they have no ground to sue you,a waste of time and money,beside,I am addicted to your blog because you tell it like it is,not sugar coating (read Stereophile and all the magazine that make a living selling publicity..including many web sites…)even Forest Gump would know that you are a business an not a magazine…if you guilty,then we might as well ban all blogs.
Guy
Thanks guys (and those of you who emailed privately), for your support.
The YG Acoustics email was actually quite tame compared to what we have received in the past. We have just decided to post all these emails on the Blog so that the world can see what is going on.
So, first, these are relatvely soft-arm tactics, and second, often manufacturers send us letters like this because one of their large dealers is complaining and the manufacturer wants to be able to tell the dealer that they made an effort to deal with it.
What bothers me the most is this implication that we ‘lie because we are a dealer aka have a commerical interest’. [In actuality, there is no commerical interest in someone lying about the competition – it is just an expression of their personal insecurities]. This ‘dealers suck’ is a broad brush that we are painted with (or tarred and feathered 🙂 ) and it seems impossible to get rid of entirely, although we hope that over the years people will learn who we are and what we stand for and it will be this ‘contrast to the norm’ that will separate us from the morass of used-car-salesman-as-high-end-audio-dealers that plauge our industry.
As you all know, we stake our repuation on, and build the Audio Federation brand on, our ability to 1) hear and 2) be honest about what we hear. If I can say so, these are two remarkably rare qualities in high-end audio. If ever we can’t do either 1) or 2) then we will say nothing at all – an even rarer quality in this professional-hobby of ours. 🙂
Thanks everybody,
Mike
well, there is something funny about the fact that yg proclaims outright that they produce the best speakers in the world! that seems a little out of bounds doesn’t it?
also i must say.. really, must say! that during the rmaf in ’05, i along with my wife stopped in to have a listen to ‘the best speaker in the world’ and it was not only the single worst encounter with a company rep i’ve ever had it was without question the most unlikeable sound i’ve heard.
my wife and i went on to make fun of the whole experiance later.
this is all true.
I was very curious about YG Acoustics speakers and when trying to find some more info about these speakers I googled their company name, and one of the links that popped up was Audio Federation show report. I had no idea that Audio Federation was a dealership, and when I read what they had to say about the speakers I started to think that I perhaps should look elsewhere to buy speakers. Nothing indicated that AudioFederation was a dealership when I was linked directly from Google – I thought you were an online magazine.
After reading this “blog” which popped up when I googled YG Acoustics a few days ago I realized that I possibly was about to make a big mistake. I was actually influenced by what you guys said in the show report, and how can I know if you are telling the truth.
I also think that Audio Federation is sinking to a very low level by publishing an email like this, and even if we do not live in the USSR where one can be shot for speaking his mind, a real american, a man of honor, should rise above such a stupid act like this blog entry.
To Mike: I have the greatest respect for you as a liar, and remember, America was built on thousands of lies, keep up the good work.
Best regards,
Ole Jorgensen
Hi Ole,
“…how can I know if you are telling the truth”
[Funny, I was wondering the same thing about you.
For one, Google, whether the page is cached or not, brings up our pages with the links to our store at the top and bototm of each page. Don’t people look to see WHO is writing the B.S. they are reading these days?
Second, it is industry people who usually go ballistic over reviews that are honest appraisals and are not just drooling in praise – they fear that it will cost them sales].
As far as how you can tell if we are telling the truth, it is called: “Thinking for yourself”. Something some of us Americans are also good at. 🙂
Listen to the darned things, see if you do not hear what we are hearing.
Here is a clue: There are no perfect speakers
If you only buy speakers based on the fact that they are ‘perfect’ and that they only have doublegood reviews – then there are lots of low-fi stuff that gets rave reviews from 100s of magazines.
Or, perhaps you should start listening more with your ears and less to industry-sanctioned cheer-leading reviewers.
Or not.
Here is another clue: Those things we found lacking in the YG Acoustics… do you even care about those things? Do you even know if you care about those things? Do you even know that some people do care and some people do not – which is what makes a speaker great for some people and not others? We really do expect a little more from our readers than what you seem willing to put into it.
We don’t tell people what to buy, or what not to buy, only what we hear. And we bend over backwards to be as even-handed as possible. It is up to them, to you, to decide what to do. Take some responsibility, man.
Funny you brought up police states. You MUST read only positive reviews. You MUST only buy speakers that ‘paid’ reviewers tell you to buy. You MUST flame all dissenting viewpoints.
Best,
Mike.
Hi,
I apologize for my imperfect english, and here is my post:
I am an audiophile from Tokyo, and I am YG Acoustics customer since 2 months. I own Kipod Studio. I use with it Lindemann SACD player and Hovland Sapphire tube amp, and also Linn LP12+Lingo+Ekos with Lyra Helikon pickup for analog.
I read your blog a few times, and also saw your cover of CEDIA show and particularly YG Acoustics. I must say that I do not agree with your comments. I think that they are correct for saying that you are not clear enough about being a dealer. Here is why:
1. When I firstly read your “show report” I also considered you are a magazine, before looking several more times in detail. Only then I noticed you are a dealer.
2. I considered at the time to buy YG Kipod, but I was not sure after reading your comments, because they mentioned some technical data that I am not confident about fully understanding. However, I read in Japanese magazine Stereo Sound complete measurements of YG Anat Reference, and I believe that these are independent measurements. They looked very linear, even at high volume. Did you ask from YG staff to comment, or just wrote technical data without even checking?
After 1 month later, I met Mr. YG at Tokyo show and heard the speakers on my own. I think they are perfect realistic sound, and I decided to purchase. I have no problem with your opinion but I am completely disagree with you. I used to be owner of Wilson System 6, then considered following speakers:
1. YG Acoustics Kipod
2. Wilson System 8
3. Kharma Exquisite Mini/Midi
4. LumenWhite WhiteFlame
YG Acoustics Kipod was my final choice, because it had much more accurate sound timbre than Wilson, and better dynamics than Kharma, and more ‘quick’ bass than LumenWhite.
Also, I asked Mr. YG about your comments, and he said I can listen independently and decide whether you are right or wrong in commenting. In my opinion you are wrong, because actually soundstage was the most like live music that I ever heard, and clarity was perfect.
I think that you are free to say your opinion, but just like I started my message by immediately writing that I am YG Acoustics customer, you should do the same in your show report and write that you are a dealer. Otherwise people like I am easily confused.
I apologize for the long message.
Best wishes, J. T.
Hi Juntan,
Your English is quite good, thank you for the post.
[At some point we are going to have to do something about manufacturers sending their happy and distrubingly loyal customers over here to post how great their products are.]
Your post is insinuating, however, that not only are we biased because we are a dealer, but implicitely implying that there is someone, somewhere, who is not biased. The naivete is charming, but missplaced if you are going to post anything but your personal opinion. We, for example, do not add to every review an enumeration of why and how all other reviewers are biased… [though, in this Blog’s ‘reviewers’ category, we try to describe the ‘hows’], it is just assumed by both the mature reader and reviewer. [There are but a handful, and I hope you all count us amongst them, that acknowledge their biases and go out of their way to be even more honest because of them – its called bending-over-backwards, and sometimes it can be painful 🙂 ].
Second, no doubt people who buy something, whatever it is, see something they like in what they buy. To do otherwise would some kind of excessive masochistic display best reserved for midnight horror movies.
I am glad you like your speakers; at some point I am sure you liked all the previous speakers you owned as well – before you recognized their limitations. It is recognizing those limitations and tradeoffs and how they affect us as listeners that our website is all about – we invite you to stay and participate, if you are so inclined.
We do not spend a lot of time eviscorating any particular product here [although I am sorely tempted…], but instead examine structures of common failings and strengths and how various company sounds fit into this structure, and how some people choose their, speakers, for example, often based on only a small subset of these attributes, all of which are arguably required for a True high-fidelity system, at any price point: in particular Emotionality, Enjoyability, Realness, Impressiveness and Magicality. No, some of these are not real English words 🙂
[Anyone else notice a pattern here – not only that all these posters have not read the updated review that clearly states we are a store, which is their stated objective, but that they have not read the above blog posts, nor the show report pages with sufficient care to see the words ‘store’ at the top and bottom of the pages? Not to mention a severe missunderstanding of SEO and how this whole thread is drawing more and more attention to the interesting approach to public relations on display here].
Enjoy!
Mike
Hi Mike,
Thank you for the compliments on my English – first time that I hear this…
I do not thinking that you are more biased than any reviewer – I just thinking that you should say clearly in not-so-small letters that you are a store. Then, everybody can judge for themselves what your opinion is worth. In my mind, it is not worth much because:
1. You are a dealer and not a journalist.
2. My ears are completely disagree with your “objective findings”, and I trust my ears more than your.
Also, I am not so happy about your comments that “manufacturers sending their happy and distrubingly loyal customers…”. I was not sent by anyone – I am honest enough to writing you that I am YG customer in the beginning of my message, because I am honest person and do not pretend to be someone that I am not.
Instead of following my example and admitting that you are a dealer and not journalist, you saying that someone “sent me” to post this message. This is not polite!
Best wishes, J.T.
Hi J.T.,
Finally! A repsonse to my original post… Like we said, we want to make sure everyone knows we are a business.
For eample, we could follow the example of the journalism ‘business’ which has images up on their site, or ads in their magazine, of the brands *their* livelihood depends on…. 🙂
Ah, shucks, now you are going back off topic again…
Kind of disagreeing with yourself above, aren’t you? Actually, I am very many things, probably any one of which could be said to ‘disqualify’ my observations by someone who is invested in a different viewport.
Definitely agree you should trust your ears more than mine.
And, since you chose to open up this line of argument, let’s look at how you chose these speakers:
* Yes, more accurate timbre than Wilson, but less resolution and dynamics and separation.
* Better dynamics than the smaller Kharmas, yes, but only in terms of macro-dymamics. Otherwise, even with a powered-subwoofer and megawatts driving the midrange, the midi- and micro-dynamics were not up to any of your other candidate speakers.
* More ‘quick’ bass than luminwhite? Driven by what? I could agree with just ‘more bass’ – most powered subwoofers get you more bass.
To be fair, these are not the technical reasons that people should be purchasing these speakers, in my opinion – they do other things that are special, which hardly anyone else does at their price point – as our CEDIA 2006 show report discussed in some detail.
But, to make it more obvious than my previous post – you do not talk about emotion, the naturalness of the reproduction, the enjoyability and other attributes of musical reproduction that many of our readers are looking for when they decide to purchase speakers and systems. In general, our show reports are written to an audience that wants more from their systems than what the audiophile-checkbox approach has led them to believe is their best bet.
Sorry to have offended you with the allegorical ‘sent’.
Like I said in my last post, this Blog is not here to discuss the plusses and minuses of other brands of equipment.
Future posts to this thread need to address how our show reports can be more clear that we want that people should consider our store when they come around to making future stereo system upgrades, or they [the posts :-)] will be moderated out of existance.
Enjoy!
Mike.
This is all SOOOO silly.
First: The “I didn’t know you were a retailer” bit. I guess the charge card icons, the PRODUCTS and SPECIALS menu choices weren’t enough. Perhaps it’s confusing to have a retailer provide deeper show coverage than most magazines in a world where most retail web sites simply list make, model and perhaps a picture along with imperatives to “Call Now for Our Low, Low Price!”
Second: Choosing audio components is really NOT that hard.
Step One: Read reviews, blogs, etc. to get ideas about things you might like to hear and perhaps consider buying. Read them with an awareness that there may be some inherent bias no matter WHERE you read opinions. Not necessarily evil; the bias can be as simple as “I love a midrange that’s like honey and I can’t abide strident upper midrange no matter what the offsetting pluses might be.” Knowing your dealer’s (and reviewer’s) likes and dislikes can be quite helpful in weighing their opinions.
Steo Two: Go listen! Again, be aware of everything in the system, the room, etc. Listen with no thought to the impressions you’ve collected. Listen to a variety of music, and a variety of qualities of recording, not just reviewer-approved audiophile pablum.
Step Three: Discuss your impressions with someone you’re inclined to trust who was there at the same listening session, and whose tastes you know. (If you can’t do Step Three, WARNING! There may be something wrong with your buying process.)
Step Four: Repeat 2 and 3 until your list is all checked off, or it occurs to you that you could have been home enjoying music this whole time.
Step Five: Arrange a home trial, if you can. Form impressions, assess (inevitable) differences. Buy the darn thing and enjoy music through it.
Mike,
I feel sorry for you being attacked in this manner. I have enjoyed your past reports and show
comments immensely. They are thorough and to the point and it is obvious to anyone
that they are an outgrowth of your hobbies in audio, sharing and photography.
I came across this sorry state of behaviour
by Mr. Goav after having witnessed something even more out of this world with Mr. Clement
Perry of StereoTimes ( http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/critics/messages/30344.html ).
Mr G. is definitely a “type A” persona who has a just downright scary ego. Keep up the good work.
PeAK
Hi PeAK,
Wow, now THAT was something. Poor Clement.
And thanks!
-Mike
I recently came across your blog and have been reading along. I thought I would leave my first comment. I don’t know what to say except that I have enjoyed reading. Nice blog. I will keep visiting this blog very often.
Miriam
http://www.craigslistguide.info
Nice set of kit you have there!
What do you think of Linn? I love their source, CD players etc and amps.
By the way, I’m having to sell some of my Linn kit if anyone’s interested;
http://www.actiononline.co.nz/linn-chakra-majik-c6100-silver-power-amp.html
http://www.actiononline.co.nz/linn-kairn-silver-pre-amp.html
Cheers,
Bob.