The Audio Asylum Critics’ hangout had some gossip. I haven’t noticed HP’s marginalization at TAS - it seems like his copy grows and shrinks at random anyway. It does have a different feel than the ‘corporate’ [is that the right term? Rah rah. Lacking depth. etc.] feel of the rest of the magazine. But rumors of HP starting another magazine… he doesn’t seem hungry or interested enough in what is happening in audio anymore in my opinion… Theyalso mention in this thread that it is common knowledge? that TAS’s circulation numbers are falsified. Maybe so, but it certainly keeps getting fatter and Stereophile keeps getting skinnier… for whatever reasons it appears like TAS is doing better and better these days.

Checked out Dagogo for the first time in awhile. They seem to have a ton of reviews listed on the front page of cool looking stuff. For all you web developers out there, if your target demographic is older people, you need to use a large text font - because we are near as to be blind [although with the FireFox browser, ctrl + or ctrl mouse-scroll-button makes all the text larger - but I happened to visit using Internet Explorer, which I think a few people still use …or is it ].

The Marten [previously Marten Design, the guys who make our Coltrane Supreme loudspeakers. Yeah, them.] folks have just finished their new demonstration studio - the Marten Center. Extensive photos and commentary in Swedish is at the Swedish Euphonia AudioForum [anyone else noticing that Audiogon ad at the top of the page on that forum? Now that our country, and by inference everything in it, is worth half as much as it was 7 years ago, This is really a good time for Europeans to shop on this side of the pond for used gear.]

Notice how the bass towers are on the inside? Just like we had ours until about 3 days ago…

OK, we are NOT the Avantgarde news channel. For one, I can barely spell it. But here is the photo of the latest version of the Duo Mezzo:

Well, we finally decided our experiment of having the bass towers INSIDE the main towers had gone on long enough.

The speakers were fairly easy to move, though both of us participated in a you push you pull fashion. The Black Diamond Racing Cone pucks slide pretty easily across the carpet - but, especially in the case of the heavier bass units, the relatively high friction of the plush wool carpet sometimes causes the cone feet fall off of the pucks and the speaker tips a little bit and Neli accuses me of reckless driving [it IS kind of dangerous when the towers are close to each other, we really, really (add more reallys as you see fit) wouldn’t want the two titans to tip one into the other!].

The main towers are about 6 inches closer together.

The original reason the main towers were positioned on the outside of the bass units was to try and get a wider sound stage than what we had before. And it worked.-
But over time we worried that we were loosing some coherence, solidity and stability in the imaging and soundstaging. It was really pretty darn goooood, don’t get me wrong, but we felt we had reached a limit as to what we could do. We want more, MORE!

So, the initial impressions? Well, we have more positioning to do… BUT… the soundstage is perhaps even wider than before - so we are good to go on that front. But solidity etc. was perhaps a little worse than before.

Darn! The just-plopping-them-down-somewhere-near-where-we-thought-they-should-go technique failed us once again [you know, it DOES sometimes work, and, seriously, rolling the dice this way does lead to some discoveries about specific room-speaker interactions that the strict-placement methodologists would never discover].

Anyway, I am hopeful that having nothing between the main towers will improve imaging. Makes sense, right, because the bass towers were acting like some kind of really strangely configured equipment rack between the speakers that are generating all the music’s location cue frequencies.

However, that said, we sure are tempted to at least put SOME of the equipment on a rack between the speakers sometimes - so that [most likely the digital] part of the system can be cabled with pure, 100%, high-octane cables like the Jorma Design PRIME [who needs to imbibe anymore?], Audio Note PALLAS [who needs Carnegie Hall anymore?], and Nordost Odin [who needs components anymore?].

Well, I exaggerate [a little ], but hopefully have also communicated why we are tempted to put a rack up front sometime - the heck with imaging [well, the rack WOULD be pretty far back from the main towers …so its impact WOULD be really minor, right?].

But the 2nd-rack-in-the-center would probably be turntable less, and have us still run the turntable from the side of the room. Why? Because stepping over maps and around cables and power cords is annoying at best, and with turntables, it just makes putting on an LP more about tip-toeing through the equipment than ‘Oh! Let’s hear THIS!’. I guess CDs are just so Slam Bam Play that it is not quite as perverted of an experience. Maybe it is because everyone has their preferred position to stand in when putting on an LP, and we just feel more comfortable when a $30K (or $80K) amp is not bogarting in our fav-o-rite location. Anybody else feel that the usability of centrally located racks is a little less than desirable?

Anyway, time for the speaker location tweaking process - which usually takes awhile… argh.

We need to make room and are selling some gear that is just the kind of stuff that some of you may be interested in:

Edge NL Reference 800 watt pyramid amps (demo)
Soundlab Ultimate 1 electrostatic loudspeakers (demo)
Walker Proscenium Gold Signature turntable (demo)
Marten Coltrane loudspeakers (used)

These are all the top performers in their particular category - more or less just like everything else we carry. There just aren’t that many of these that come on the market at demo/used prices. If you want one of these, now is the time.

The Edge NL Reference amps are sitting waiting for a new owner. We need to make room people, the Kegons, both pairs, the Ongaku, the Lamms, … We got amps coming out of our ears….

They are up on Audiogon if you are interested.

The Soundlab Ultimate 1 loudspeakers are playing music while waiting for a new owner. We got amps coming out our ears and speakers coming out our…. ears too. We got four systems and still we always have at least a couple of great speakers just sitting around for months on end.

The Soundlab U1 are still the best electrostatic speakers and are up on Audiogon.

The Walker Proscenium Gold Signature turntable is ready for a new owner. Also on the infamous Audiogon.

Here are some photos of the pieces that come with…

We have the compressor and large damping chambers up on a bookcase in the room next to listening room #2

The compressor.

The large damping chambers

The Walker motor controller.

Another view of the motor controller.

The small damping chambers sit nicely next to the rack.

A closeup of the small damping chambers

A pair of Marten Coltrane loudspeakers that we had here a long time are available - the owner is moving and is selling their entire system. It is not on Audiogon but please, if you are interested, contact us immediately.

OK, back to our normally scheduled programming.

Well, moving the equipment back about 3 or 4 inches away from in front of the speakers solved most of the sibilance problem [note to Mike: do not put equipment in front of speakers] … could probably move it back further… but too impatient and went on to the next experiment and put the Audio Note M10 3 box linestage in the system replacing the 2 box Lamm L2.

Oops, the CDSA is back in front of the speakers again. Well, what can I do? In the short term I mean. Eventually we could put up high rises (racks), overpasses (elevators), bypasses (longer runs of cables, especially power cords in this case), etc. But for now, we just listen.

Emm Labs CDSA CD/SACD player in front, Audio Note M10 line stage (center) and its power supplies (flanking) in the second row, Marten crossover and bass tower amp with Edge Signature One amps flanking.

Neli wants me to remind people that she is not inn favor of the CDSA player being in front of the left channel bass tower that way.

The system sounds bigger, stronger, more forceful with the M10 linestage. This is more of a ‘room pressurizing’ big overwhelming sound than the more measured stately sound of the Lamm L2 linestage.

The Marten Coltrane Supremes at morning

The Marten Coltrane Supremes at morning. The redishness is the sun reflecting off of our bright red leather couch.

Christmas season is almost upon us, and as we make out our Christmas lists, there is one question that many people must face.

That question is whether to ask for a popular Lamborghini automobile or the much more exclusive, much more useful loudspeakers from Marten, the Coltrane Supreme.

Of course, many of you might ask, why not both? Good question. But not everybody can afford both and we are trying, in the spirit of the several recent issues of Stereophile and TAS, to address the needs of the readers with more modest incomes.

On the one hand we have last year’s Murcielago…

2006 Lamborghini Murcielago at $288,000 - $319,100

or Gallardo

2006 Lamborghini Gallardo at $175,000 - $195,000

versus the Marten Coltrane Supremes:

Marten Coltrane Supreme Loudspeakers at $250,000

In the interests of choosing the right choice the first time, we offer the following comparisons:

Problems with the Lamborghini:

1) Paying for gas at $3 a gallon [subtract 10]
2) Expensive periodic repair costs [subtract 5]
3) It pollutes [subtract 1]
4) Can’t use it during Winter in many places [subtract 15]
5) Stupid laws prevent driving it faster than prevailing traffic conditions allow [subtract 50]
6) Attracts cute people with dubious morals and motivations [subtract 5. If married, add 10.^H^H subtract 10].
7) Lots of people have them [subtract 20]
8) Conspicuous consumption is often frowned upon outside L.A. [subtract 5 if outside L.A., add 20 if in L.A.]
9) Traffic tickets [subtract 5]
10) You have to get it washed a lot [subtract 10]

Problems with the Coltrane Supreme speakers:

None.

So, the choice is really easy this year. Cool.

Next: The Lamm ML3 versus a Porsche 911 Turbo [hint: the analysis goes much the same way as that for the Lamborghini]

I hope nobody thought we were just going to ignore this…

Most people tell me this was a pretty positive review. We certainly would like to thank Roy Gregory for taking the time and brain cells to describe what these speakers do, as well as putting it on the cover of the HiFi+ magazine this month.

But me, similar to the reviews of the smaller Marten Coltranes before this by Roy Gregory, Mike Fremer, and HP, I want them to describe what the speakers do that is unique. Not just describe it as yet another speaker that does X, Y and Z with music track A and B.

I can sense that they recognize there is a challenge here, to 1) describe these without damaging their relationships with other manufacturers and 2) not sound like they have gone off the deep end, lost too many marbles, and gone wacko like the guy at Audio Federation.

The problem with these speakers is that they are so competent, especially the Supremes as we call them here [and which is what the rest of this post is about, though everything applies to the Coltranes and little cousins, just there are more compromises and less absolutes], that they are completely shocking… or completely boring.

They are completely shocking because we have spent our lives playing with speakers that are colored. Colored neutral or colored sweet, colored impressive or colored dull. Finally there is the music, which has always been painted in the past with some kind of artist’s brush, the artist being the speaker manufacturer.

To be sure the underlying technology, drivers, crossover, cabinet all limit just what can be done compared to the Real Thing. But, given the technology, this is the way speakers should be built if people just want to hear what is upstream. If they do not, then that is OK, and there are a lot of speakers out there that sound great and we love them and we recommend and or sell a number of them.

They are completely boring because they just play what they are given. They don’t futz with the music and pump it up because they think they know what you should like - and it isn’t the actual music, it is how well the designer can SLAM the bass, or render exceedingly fine detail, or throw a gigantico soundstage or build a great looking cabinet or make tall tall speakers or …

They are boring because after you get them, you are done with speakers. Now, if you want to change the sound, you just change the upstream components.

They are a tabula rasa, which means, if I remember my Spanish [Latin] meaning clean slate. They are like a blank piece of paper: scary, challenging, boring, exciting… because it is now up to YOU to setup the components to make the sound you have always wanted.

And this is where the reviewers are at a disadvantage. They, have limited time and limited componentry to try with the speakers. They may have only one room. It took us one year [so far!], three different rooms, five different positions, dozens of combinations of best in-class amps and cables and sources, … and we are STILL just starting to get a handle on what they can do.

Like any good tool, the designer does their best, but they can barely imagine, if at all, what people will be able to do with it. This is true in software and I believe it to be true in high-end audio as well. We are, many of us, mapping new territory in high fidelity music reproduction using the best equipment available. How much fun is that? [that was a rhetorical question, but, just in case… it is a LOT of fun ].

So, I am definitely asking for too much from reviewers, but it would have been so great to have them talk about this in their reviews, how these are so, so, so balanced. Like wives versus girl friends, husband-material versus boy friend-material. Something that will stand by our system for years and years.

[Hopefully, some of these techniques apply to other speakers as well, but regardless, perhaps you might find them interesting as a study in What is Possible with the right design and tools].

This setup in our main listening room is more or less the setup we used at the show [well, the bass towers are on the inside, and there are a few cable changes, but….yeah, the same. Kind of.]

This is part of the Marten ‘Coltrane Supreme’ speaker system. It contains the amp, for the bass towers, and, most important for this current discussion today, the active crossover.

On the back of the active crossover there are controls for the phase and the bass level (volume).

Because we were / are using an integrated amplifier (the Audio Note Ongaku) to drive the main towers, and no preamp in the system, we are forced to change the bass volume every time we change the main volume on the Ongaku.

Turn up the volume on the Ongaku, then turn up the volume on the bass amp. [For some reason, I always think about turning UP the volume, but it is the same when turning down the volume, when and if that ever happens].

So, that is the situation, we are forced to keep adjusting the bass when changing the volume because of this particular system setup we are using.

We keep having to judge what is the EXACT right amount of bass… for a particular volume, and sometimes for a particular song (have to turn it up the bass for reggae, Mon).

OK, here’s the thing. With one person adjusting the bass and others listening to the result, certain behaviors are noticeable.

* The resulting sound is linear, by which we mean that it smoothly changes in response to the change in bass volume… EXCEPT at a particular point

* At this particular point in bass volume, the sound suddenly ‘fills in’. It reminds me of something like an old TV / CRT - like the beginning of Outer Limits - the ‘picture’(i.e. sound) suddenly grows from nothing to fill up the entire soundstage (room?).

* At this particular point, and this is weird [well, it is weird to me, along with being an awesome side-effect] certain in-room distortions disappear.

At this particular point, where the bass level is just so, we could increase the volume to our (my) pain threshold and every note was clear and separated and positioned perfectly - whereas at a lower volume, when the bass was not just so, it was a little bit confused and not completely enchanting, shall we say.

Well, that is all we have to report to this date - we have not tried this here yet, we still have a way to go to position the speakers correctly [ Yeah, we’ve been busy here, which is good, but…]. And we only learned this the last few hours of the show when we felt that it was OK to get a little wild and experiment a little.

Hey I think one lucky room visitor did to hear all this… Perfect Circle, perfectly rendered at 110 - 120dB and something else which I always forget the name of…. But I imagine people outside in the hallway, and in the nearby stairwell between floors, well, not sure WHAT they thought…

Maybe this has to do more with the ears and not room interactions. Maybe we are just nuts. We’ll let you know when we try the same thing here, in a vastly different space.

… is shaping up…

We are now running the Emmlabs CDSD transport through 10m long optical cables to the DCC2 DAC/Pre into the Marten Coltrane Supremes Crossover/ Bass amp into the Audio Note Ongaku and finally to the Marten Supreme speakers.

The key is that the cables are all Jorma Design Prime and one Stealth INDRA interconnect. Less cable, better cable, sound.

Now. This sounds better. But is REALLY sounds better running the DAC direct to the Marten box, not going through the DCC2’s preamp.

When I say ‘really sounds better’, it is both somewhat subtle and somewhat not subtle at all. There is an energy that was present without the extra preamp in the loop that was amazingly hypnotic… but it is hard to hear this when just listening to frequencies and dynamics and other audiophile-type attributes. I guess that is why we call it magic.

Anyway, without the preamp, to change the volume requires changing the main tower volume on the Ongaku and the bass volume on the Marten box. We are running with unity gain into the Marten box, but the bass volume knob works really well. Neli think this is too weird for a show. I think it is no weirder than having two knobs, one for each (left and right) channel, We just have a top and bottom channel instead.

But is is a pain to walk up to the front in a large room like we have at RMAF and adjust the volume all the time, along with syncing up the bass volume to the midrange volume - so it is unclear if we will use the optimized setup at the show (and we want to support use of a turntable as well). But when we get back… This is just too good to pass up.

………and then perhaps swapping out the INDRA for more Jorma ‘Prime’ cable, or Nordost ODIN, or Audio Notes new SOTTO …. How much fun!

Just saw a copy of the review in HiFi+ of these speakers by Roy Gregory. Thanks mystery friend

Haven’t read the whole thing, but I like where he pointed out the intimate presentation (my words) of these speakers.

The Triolons were larger-than-life, which is not necessarily speaking about the soundstage size, but the overall ‘feeling’ of the presentation. A kind of impersonal presentation. I always felt like an honored guest at the musical event.

The Supremes presentation is more intimate, like the musicians are playing for ME. Much more personal.

I do not think this has to do with their relative size. There are many small speakers that are very impersonal. Some of them make one feel like an unwelcome intruder…

The Rocky Mountain Audio Fest here in Denver is just around the corner. October 12th I think. I hope. Better go look I guess.

Anyway…

We are planning on taking the Coltrane Supremes, like last year. But this time using the Audio Note Ongaku integrated amplifier to drive them. ‘How Sweet it Is!’

We were using the Edge Reference ‘pyramid’ amps you see there in the photo, but not any more, so just delete them somehow with your visual cortex.

The sound is quite sweet and beautiful, the first time we’ve really achieved this with the Supremes (they are finally breaking in, hurray!), which are, to put it simply, the only competent speaker made today. All other speakers have serious flaws in comparison. Not that people don’t LIKE some of the flaws in those other speakers, and they’ve certainly got used to them, but, well, there you have it.

The source equipment consists of the Meitner CDSA and the Audio Note M10 preamplifier. We’re thinking the system may be a little too laid back and are planning on replacing the Shunyata Anaconda Helix Vx with Nordost Valhalla power cords, something closer to the Belden OEM cords the factory recommends , to try to get the system to lively up itself a little bit.

I mean, it is close, but people at shows… its hard to figure them out. Some want rooms to be LOUD and IMPRESSIVE (esp. in this price range ) some want it to be REAL, … etc. just like they do with their own systems. And our goal, and I think we can achieve this, is to make it excel in all categories.

The problem is in the subject flavor - how to flavor the system right… down… the…middle.

To please as many people as possible. And us too!

And then there is the let’s just take the EMM Labs CDSD and DCC2 and the Ongaku and be done with it. No preamps, no second rack. No turntable. No second digital source. … Mt arms feel better already

Of course, there is our second room, the Audio Note room. But that is a small room, a decent-sized system, and adds only a few gray hairs to the noggin.